Jude Bellingham is the latest in the England firing line as Declan Rice is defended by Arsenal fans and Gareth Southgate is blamed.
Send your England views to theeditor@football365.com
Bellingham is a prima donna
Look at Spain’s goal. Bellingham’s defensive effort is appallingly bad. Embarrasing! A top manager would have “grabbed him by the collar”.
He can see Walker having to cover both Olmo (lined up with the post) and Willams out wide and Bellingham stops running at the half line. Walks. GOAL🎉
Such a prima donna midfielder, who thinks, “I only score goals.”
Chris Samu
Declan Rice is best combative DM in world
All this Rice criticism is getting well out of hand, even from your F365 rankings. Worse than Foden? Can’t pass forward? Complete nonsense.
This is a player who was first in the group stages for progressive passing. Against Switzerland made the most passes and most xG in buildup. 1 MOTM performance and the second highest tournament performer on WhoScored.
Yeah he wasn’t great at retaining the ball in the final and let Simons in, but across the rest of the tournament was incredibly reliable and bailed England out multiple times.
And the criticisms of him not being world class are just plain weird. He’s the best combative DM in the world as it stands. A peerless duel winner, breaks up play and is always in the right place. His dribbling and burst are reminiscent of Vieira, as is his ability to break into the area and finish.
(Did somebody forget Rodri exists? – Ed)
But he isn’t a pace-setting midfielder, or a passing supremo. He isn’t a Pirlo or Gerrard and no Arsenal fan or England fan should expect him to be. Arsenal fans see every game how astonishing he is, but know he needs an Odegaard next to him, as well as maybe a complimentary possession-based deeper midfielder.
If he could do everything he’d literally be the perfect CM. But because that person doesn’t exist and every player is different, you find a way to create a complement of abilities.
No-one is complaining Foden isn’t KDB, so why are we doing this with Rice? People just can’t help trying to find a scapegoat and with my Arsenal tinfoil hat on, Saka is now off-limits so Rice is the next up with the bantah merchants on social media.
Tom (also, he’s played just an astonishing amount of football this season, he’s likely knackered too) Walthamstow
MORE ENGLAND REACTION FROM F365
👉16 Conclusions on England losing the Euro 2024 final: Southgate out, Kane abysmal, Rice poor, drop Walker
👉One ‘terrified’ and ‘comical’ England player sums up the Southgate era
👉Dunk to Guehi via Kane, Bellingham and Watkins: Ranking all 26 England players at Euro 2024
The problem? England don’t play like Arsenal or Man City
Not many players avoid a kicking from the fans, it seems the senior and most consistent English players took the brunt. There’s no getting away that very few England players were able to bring their club form to the tournament but the over reaction that this makes them bad players not fit for top-level football is laughable.
Most of these players play progressive, high possession, high press, high tempo football at club level with ease. The 11 was often made up of 3 City, 2 Arsenal, a Bayern player and a Real Madrid player. The biggest problem England have to fix is the ability to control games. Spain had 4 central mids who walk in to the England side and would be the main conductor of our play. Rice took some shots in the mailbox but he had to hold the midfield on his own at times, Arteta quickly realised in a high-press team Rice is better as an 8 rather than the distributor in front of defence.
Look how the two best teams in this country play. It’s a 4-1-3-1 on paper, but one of those defenders ends up at the base of the midfield to help the deepest midfielder control games. The 2 8’s aren’t box crashing running machines or shoot on sight greed-bags they also offer creativity and rarely lose the ball, and they form wonderful partnerships with their wide players and full-backs. Partnerships were so severely lacking for England. So in possession these teams look more like 3-2-5. Wide players in the 5 stay very high and very wide and the ball is worked via overloads to get them in dangerous 1v1 situations. Isn’t that exactly how Spain played?!
Football goes in cycles and there will be a tactic that usurps this but right now this is how the best teams set up. England played a very flat and very rigid back 4 most of the time, no opportunity to create triangles with the midfield. We have Trent who could do the inverted full back thing, we have an embarrassment of players who can play in the 2 wide positions and the 2 attacking 8 positions. Then in many ways your striker is less important to be a machine-like goalscorer. Of course City have that man, but some excellent teams set up with a tactical 9, he makes others play well but doesn’t need to score all the goals because 2 wide players and 2 8’s chip in lots. City, Arsenal, Bayern, Real Madrid are all like this.
So now we’re looking at the conductor in front of the back 4. Who is that? Who ever was it for England? Who is coming through the academies showing the level of skill you need to play this position. Elite positional play, 1 or 2 touch maximum, dictating play and tempo, passing quickly through the lines.
If England was club football you’d go and sign anyone half decent for this role (Spain probably has a load of them who didn’t even make their squad) and we’d be infinitely better. The trouble is England are still too English in the way we play. The reason we’ve done reasonably well in the last 4 tournaments is because we’ve got very good players who can have special moments, but I still struggle to see what the style of play is and an England team who dominate the ball, push our defence up to the halfway line and execute an organised high press.
So England need to play how Arsenal and City do, but they are missing the key talented player(s) to do so and a manager who understands how to coach it. I dare say for all our recent success in the youth national tournaments we’re still not a side who dominate the ball and put other teams on the carousel. This style is of course no guarantee of success but it certainly increases your chances.
Rich, AFC
England need a system
That game reminded me of James Cameron’s Aliens.
England were the colonial marines, armed to the teeth with all the shiny superstars – and Spain were the xenomorphs.
They had a system, and massacred us.
Game over man, game over.
Tom Savernake
If you’re going to counter-attack…commit to it
The dull risk-averse football of sit deep and try to nick a goal from a set-piece or on the break was one thing, but then to lack the gumption to actually back that up and pick a team that could execute on that approach is the biggest failing.
If you’re going to basically try to play counter attacking football then pace, dynamism, a target man and someone who can hit a pretty decent long ball/pass would seem like a good idea, rather than being a bit of a wimp and sticking with the big names who were entirely unsuited to this. It was all just a muddle and a mess, best encapsulated by shoving Trent in midfield (where he never plays) at the 11th hour, and giving him no one to play penetrating passes to. This certainly shouldn’t be the England team but Gordon, Bowen, Trent and Toney should all be playing if Southgate’s dull pragmatism is what we’re going with.
He is so far out of his depth it’s ridiculous, yes he’s a nice guy and says the right things and is a perfect FA stooge, but England for years have done well in spite of him, not because of him. If he stays on the FA are a joke! He makes Martinez look competent.
And my last rant, this whole narrative switch over the last week because we’d made it to the final was shallow and nauseating! All of a sudden it was ‘look at this record’ blah blah rather than look at the many very capable squads of players he’s had that have looked utterly lost yet somehow stumbled through tournaments…he will not get another high level job anywhere which pretty much sums up his level!
So yeah, not really a fan of Southgate.
Mark Swift
Why do England need two DMs?
I feel that Cole Palmer gave Southgate a puzzle he could solve as his obsession with two defensive midfielders wouldn’t allow that.
It was obvious when Cole Palmer came on he should be starting on the team sheet. So Southgate perhaps rightly thinks ‘but I can’t drop the form player of the year Foden, Bellingham scored two great goals and Saka.
But the solution was only play one defensive midfielder either Rice or Mainoo, then Foden Bellingham One in midfield one number 10 then Palmer can play on left or even number nine instead of Kane.
But not possible in Southgate’s world as he needs two defensive midfielders in there.
So he fears getting beat which in the end causes our defeat cos we didn’t have our possible best team out there. For God’s sake with a back five we don’t need two more defensive midfielders.
With an attack of Bellingham, Foden, Palmer, Saka plus either Shaw or Chilwell attacking down the left and Arnold down the right we could outscore any team possibly barring Spain but def make more finals and have a lot more fun doing it.
Looking back on past winning teams I’m pretty sure rarely did those teams have two defensive midfielders in the middle so why do England think they need them?
Wayne Buckley
MORE ENGLAND REACTION FROM F365
👉16 Conclusions on England losing the Euro 2024 final: Southgate out, Kane abysmal, Rice poor, drop Walker
👉One ‘terrified’ and ‘comical’ England player sums up the Southgate era
👉Dunk to Guehi via Kane, Bellingham and Watkins: Ranking all 26 England players at Euro 2024
Gareth is an HR manager and England need a coach
I really did care about England in major tournaments in days gone by, but that part of me has died, to the point that I didn’t cheer a single England goal. I didn’t even watch the Dutch game, I absolutely had better things to do that night. I think it’s years of dross, coupled with my disassociation from the country of my birth, with plenty of gobsh*te players thrown in (although this lot are not that bad, I suppose). I am an adopted Paddy now, and I would have taken far more pleasure from Ireland being at the tournament than I did England.
Anyway, Gareth Southgate is an HR manager. One of the better ones, to be fair. He clearly had the squad singing from the same hymn sheet and there hasn’t really been so much as a hint of any unhappy players during his tenure, save the Raheem Sterling “incident” (ie assault) with Joe Gomez. He has done a great job there from a people perspective. And he has been rewarded handsomely for it, and maybe, just maybe, in the ridiculous financial position that elite football us in, he has earned his millions. One SF, two finals in four tournaments is not a shabby return.
But we’re now at 58 years of hurt, as the song sort of goes, and Southgate has still been a perennial loser, albeit losing later than most England managers.
And this is because he isn’t much of a football manager. He has a lot of talent at his disposal, but not a lot of tactical acumen. Everyone knows this, it’s not a source of controversy. He has also had the luck of the devil, but it always runs out. Always. And it always will, because he is too concerned with keeping big egos happy, and, obviously, is not an elite level manager.
So it’s time to move on from the Southgate era. He won’t get his knighthood, and he would be wise to put his trotters up and fall back to punditry, where he can spend the next two decades earning yet more stupid money, with no stress at all. If the FA offer to renew his contract, well, then they are idiots, and of course, as we all know, they are idiots, so it will probably happen. I just hope for everyone’s sake, including Gareth, that he has the sense to walk away.
I say give it to Graham Potter. Not Jurgen Klopp, that’s for sure. There is a reason why it took Andy Robertson and Fabinho six months to bed in, and that’s because it takes time for the Klopp way to work. Time that an international manager doesn’t have.
Mat (Sorry Badwolf, I know you want Frank Lampard)
READ: Who will be the next England manager after Gareth Southgate?
What about…?
England’s future?
Two words for you.
Two words…
Marcelo Bielsa
It would be mind-blowing. Astounding.
And I bet it would work.
CanadaMentalist
It wasn’t that bad, guys
I don’t think our Euro 2024 campaign has been so bad. Yes, we didn’t win it and the final was disappointing but we had some exciting moments. Bellingham’s last gasp overhead kick goal against Slovakia, the dramatic and penalty shoot-out win against Switzerland where all five of our penalties were of the very highest of quality, and Ollie Watkins’ sensational last minute winner to put us in the final.
Yes, we didn’t play that well throughout most of the tournament and yes we were mostly outplayed by Spain (the better team) in the final but it’s not been the total disaster it could have been or we thought it might have been after the embarrassing loss to Iceland in our final pre-tournament friendly.
Southgate has taken us as far as he can and it’s time for someone and something new but he’s given us some great nights and exciting dramatic moments. It’s not been all bad by any stretch.
Dan, London
On English entitlement
Why did everyone else across Europe want Spain to win?
Because of the absolute entitlement of the majority of English fans and contributors here who lash out to apportion blame on someone, anyone, for losing that final.
I half wanted England to win out of curiosity, just to see how people would react to not having something to throw a childish tantrum about.
Instead of taking your medicine (to quote Keane) and accepting that the England management and players combined just weren’t good enough, the arrogance dictates that a sacrifice has to be made, that an excuse has to be sought, Southgate is picked apart with no credit given for reaching the final, the very idea that another team could simply be better at football never enters the thought process.
Learn to win with some humility and accept defeat with some grace, grow up all of you and get over yourselves.
Eoin (Football stayed in the EU) Ireland
…I can’t ignore the instinctively cautious reactions that have cost England in various recent tournaments (should have gone all-out for a winner with the momentum and crowd noise after the equaliser).
But a look back at the last 58 years seems to indicate there must be something more enduring that explains why England’s record since 1966 so completely defies the law of averages compared to major (and not-so-major) European football nations.
It can’t be just that they never had a sufficient combination of manager and players – that would be just freakish. This 1968-2024 table for World Cups and European Championships tells a tale:
Wins and runner-up finishes respectively:
Germany/W. Germany 6 and 6
Italy 4 and 4
France 4 and 3
Spain 3 and 1
Netherlands 1 and 3
Portugal 1 and 1
Czechia/Czechoslovakia 1 and 1
Denmark 1 and 0
Greece 1 and 0
Russia/USSR 0 and 2
England 0 and 2
So what are the deeper systemic reasons that continue to get in England’s way? Very difficult to say.
My personal theory (which could be way off the mark) is that England teams continually suffer a negative mental impact from being constantly over-rated before tournaments by their own media and fans (possibly by themselves on some occasions but not always).
Which means that when an average or slightly below par performance arises, the mood instantly turns sour, causes defensiveness, excessive tension and fear of making mistakes in the following matches and, among the crowd, less committed support when things aren’t going well.
Other countries just seem to be able to more regularly (not always of course) shrug off a below-par performance, having being aware of their own weaknesses and imperfections.
I constantly hear English teams being rated as much stronger, player-for-player, than other teams. But a lot of that is just ignorance, because there is only space for so many players to show how good they are in the Premier League and Champions League. Brilliant players in La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga outside the very top stars are either unknown to or unrated by English fans.
If the last 58 years have shown anything, it should be that foreign players that people have never heard of may well be just as good, if not better, than their counterpart on the England team. England need to dial down the hype and expectations before every tournament, every match. It will actually help the team.
Or maybe it’s something else, I just don’t know.
Roy (Was quite prepared to be happy for an entertaining, likeable and skillful winning England team, but glad the right winners emerged). Dublin
…I’ve tried, really really tried, to keep quiet about the endless, exhausting stream of “fans” telling Gareth Southgate how to manage the England football team. But I’m clearly weak. So here goes.
1. England just competed in their second successive Euros final.
2. England just completed their fourth (fourth!) consecutive major tournament reaching final eight.
3. England just completed their fourth (again-fourth!!!) consecutive major tournament without at any point being less than competitive.
So….
Badwolf and the rest of you masterminds, tell us exactly why we should be paying any attention to you? Not what you think but why you’re worth listening to?
We’ll wait……
A Scottish Office
